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Writers Retreat > Student Talk > Idea Sparkers > Main character in monster story
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BlueDawg97
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« on: October 14, 2010, 03:26:34 PM »
Hey all! There's this idea that's been in my head for about a decade now, and I wanna both share it and get feedback on certain elements of it.

This particular story is a twist on the "monsters-under-the-bed" concept, and I plan on having it be a novel short series for boys ages 11 to maybe 16. The series centers on a friendship between a human protagonist and an ogre whose home world can be accessed from inside closets and underneath beds. In the first book - out of at least three - the human and his dog are forced into the monster's world and held captive by him as punishment for severely injuring another monster. There are some other twists to this story, but I don't wanna spoil anything!

I'm having a bit of a conflict regarding the human protagonist. One thing I'm sure of is that he'll have some form of Asperger's. However, I'm conflicted regarding his age and prior living situation. The overall story arc requires him to be older than either 13 or 25 - due to a recurring event within the monster realm - and I'm wondering if it would be OK for him to be 25 or no more than three years older. Since he has Asperger's, he'll likely have the disposition of a younger boy. If that would be his age, then he will have a job, but kinda a boring job, like a product-review blogger or something. And I'm wondering whether he and his dog should be living in an apartment or at home with his mom.

Any feedback anyone would give would be great. Thanks a bunch!
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ColoradoKate
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 04:01:58 PM »
I would think that having a 25-year-old protagonist, even with Aspergers, would make this very, very, very hard to market as a middle-grade or tween book, or even a YA. Can you think of other books for those age ranges that have MCs this old? I get it that the Aspergers would make him seem younger, but even so, he'd have adult concerns and issues, especially if he lived in his own apartment.

If he could be 13 or 15, it'd work for MG. I dunno if 16-year-old boys would be interested in reading about ogres, but then I'm not a 16-year-old boy!

You might just go ahead and write it as a book for adults--The Stolen Child by Keith Donohue comes to mind.

Have fun with it!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 04:05:43 PM by ColoradoKate » Logged
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BlueDawg97
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 01:22:59 PM »
Thanks, Kate. One thing, though: This story's trappings seem more suitable for kids than adults. For example, the ogre and the other monsters featured are overall more cartoony than realistic in terms of appearances and sometimes personalities - think Monsters Inc. quality. Also, the basic themes - friendship, a "grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side" philosophy - and most possible writing style seem to me more directed to younger audiences. However, the characters are overall pretty complex, and the monster realm is dark and grungy in terms of appearance.

Oh, and in my original version of the story, there are definitely some situations that call for a more adult audience, but then I toned it all down, just in case. The story's got some magic - literal magic - in it as well.

But yeah, I kinda knew from the start that this would be a VERY hard story to market, no matter who the audience is. Just thought I'd respond with this information for the sake of further clarification. Thanks again!
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ColoradoKate
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 03:37:14 PM »
Well, why can't you just revise it so that the MC can be a young teen? I know, "The overall story arc requires him to be older than either 13 or 25" but, after all, you're the one who created that story arc!  Grin  And anyhow, 13 or 14 would be perfect for a MG story, which this definitely sounds like. The best MGs have complex characters, I think, and can include things that are dark both in appearance and mood. Look at The Underneath, by Kathi Appelt.
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Mikki S
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 04:04:10 PM »
Thirteen to 25 is an extremely long period of time for a story or even a series of stories.  The kids you would want to market the first book to...well, I am assuming the age jump comes with the series and doesn't take place in the first book...anyway, those kids would not be interested in a continuing story line that goes up to age 25.

You also need to remember that if your MC starts out at age 13, the kids who will be reading him wil be age 11 and 12, possibly 13 but no older.  Kids want to read about other kids who are a year or two older than they are, not younger.

I don't think your age definition is very realistic at all.  Also, you should not try to market this idea as a series.  Publishers all the time tell writers to make the first book a stand-alone book, and if it sells, and sells well, then they talk to the author about considering a series.  That doesn't mean that you can't be thinking in terms of a series...given that you lower your ages by about 10 years...but your first book should be stand alone.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but frankly, I don't see any chance of selling this book/series to either the children's or adult market if your MC ages 12 or more years in the process.

And I must admit I'm really curious.  The topic sounds like something kids would like...but why in the world would you want your MC to become an adult, when kids don't want to read about adults?  And certainly, adults aren't going to read about a 13 year old.  Couldn't you do the same thing with the idea by having him start out as younger than 13 ( 11, for example)and maybe aging to about 15?

About Asperger's Syndrome:  I know several people ( adults) with this, and they function at a very high level with high intelligence, so that doesn't necessarily mean that the MC would be relevant to kids at all.

Having said all of that, I think you idea is a fun one, just not sure about your story arc. Smiley
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BlueDawg97
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 04:47:37 PM »
Quote from: Mikki S on October 15, 2010, 04:04:10 PM
Thirteen to 25 is an extremely long period of time for a story or even a series of stories.  The kids you would want to market the first book to...well, I am assuming the age jump comes with the series and doesn't take place in the first book...anyway, those kids would not be interested in a continuing story line that goes up to age 25.

That's not it. The MC stays the same age throughout the whole series, no aging at all. What I meant was, should he be 13/14 or 25? And you're not a wet blanket, I just don't think you fully understood my thoughts. It's OK, though.

Quote from: Mikki S on October 15, 2010, 04:04:10 PM
I don't think your age definition is very realistic at all.  Also, you should not try to market this idea as a series.  Publishers all the time tell writers to make the first book a stand-alone book, and if it sells, and sells well, then they talk to the author about considering a series.  That doesn't mean that you can't be thinking in terms of a series...given that you lower your ages by about 10 years...but your first book should be stand alone.

I'm fully aware of that. Each story is meant to be a stand-alone book.

Quote from: Mikki S on October 15, 2010, 04:04:10 PM
About Asperger's Syndrome:  I know several people ( adults) with this, and they function at a very high level with high intelligence, so that doesn't necessarily mean that the MC would be relevant to kids at all.

I know about those first parts. I actually have Asperger's myself. I kinda threw that idea into the pot as a way of depicting the MC as an outcast among people....And the notion that he might fit in better with monsters.

Quote from: Mikki S on October 15, 2010, 04:04:10 PM
Having said all of that, I think you idea is a fun one, just not sure about your story arc. Smiley

Thanks a bunch! But like I said, this idea's been in my head for a very long time, and I even once drew out an outline of the entire story arc. But yeah, I think it'll work very well with a 13/14 year old MC. Thanks again!
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BlueDawg97
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 04:49:44 PM »
Thanks, Kate. Now that I think about it, 13/14 would be perfect on all counts. By the way, I don't really know what "MG" means. What does it mean?

Thanks again, all!
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hardt
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 04:50:54 PM »
mg=mid grade (that age bracket of the "middle grades")
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BlueDawg97
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 04:53:37 PM »
Quote from: hardt on October 15, 2010, 04:50:54 PM
mg=mid grade (that age bracket of the "middle grades")

Oh, OK. Thanks a bunch!  Grin
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ColoradoKate
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 04:57:52 PM »
Quote from: hardt on October 15, 2010, 04:50:54 PM
mg=mid grade (that age bracket of the "middle grades")

... which is variously designated as age 8-12 or 9-13 or sometimes even 10-14. Kids who are able to read fluently, but who aren't high-school-age. Sorry for my lack of clarity!  
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hardt
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 04:59:44 PM »
Quote from: ColoradoKate on October 15, 2010, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: hardt on October 15, 2010, 04:50:54 PM
mg=mid grade (that age bracket of the "middle grades")

... which is variously designated as age 8-12 or 9-13 or sometimes even 10-14. Kids who are able to read fluently, but who aren't high-school-age. Sorry for my lack of clarity!  

wouldn't that make it 8-14 then...or is there a lmg, mmg, and umg?
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ColoradoKate
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 05:06:20 PM »
Actually, yeah, people do refer to "lower middle grade" or "younger middle grade," and the 10-  or 11- or 12-14 group is sometimes called "tween" or "upper MG." The thing is, the difference in reading and especially interest levels between an average 8- or 9-year-old and an average 12- or 13-year-old is pretty great, so it's hardly a homogeneous group. But I was really referring to the fact that you'll see different age-ranges mentioned different places... so it gets confusing.
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Mikki S
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2010, 07:36:24 PM »
What Kate said...plus the fact that editors/publishers make the distinction even more fuzzy.

To me, middle grade means for kids aged 11, 12, and 13...which is the average age for 6th, 7th and 8th grades, the "middle school"  ages.

On the other hand, editors often claim YA starts at age 12 and goes through age 18.  Which I personally think is ridiculous...what 17-18 year old wants to read novels about a 13 or 14 year old?  To say nothing of the fact that YA stories usally deal with aspects of life that, while younger kids might know about them, are left better read by 16-18 year olds...sex/physical/drug abuse, abortions/teen pregancies, and so on.  They are also usually written with more complex plots, characters, and subject matter than those for the younger group.

So I think it's really difficult, if you are writing for kids beyond the age of about 10, to say whether the story is "middle grade" or "young adult."

By the way, in his workshop at the conference I went to, Nathan Bransford said that when you're writing your query letter, unless is it definitely for the younger kids or for kids older than 15-16, it's sometimes better to just state the age of your MC and secondary characters, and let the editor or agent put the "MG" or "YA" desgination on it themselves, rather than stating you have a xx novel.  You may say MG, and they may consider it YA, and wonder why you didn't know that.

Which goes to prove nothing...except that you can't please everybody  Angry
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BlueDawg97
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2010, 04:16:19 PM »
I just now thought of something. I was looking through the Book Markets for Children's Writers 2011 book for another project, and I happen to stumble upon TokyoPop. You mean, the ones who do all the manga and graphic novels.

That got me to thinking that maybe this story would be stronger and more flexible to me as a graphic novel. Like movies, graphic novels rely on more visual storytelling, which my monster story often has. In addition, graphic novel format would allow my characters to actually be seen, rather than imagined.

Also, that gives me a lot more flexibility with the age of the main human character; because the way I see it, the kinda people who usually read those types of graphic novels consist of man-child types, as well as children and teens who often see family films with grown-up protagonists.

Any points on what I just said? How about some confirmation or analysis of my monster story going graphic novel? Anything people would say on this would be extremely helpful.

Thanks again, guys!
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