Blogger KRISTI HOLL is the author of 42 books, including
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Writers First Aid

To Change or Not to Change: That is the Question

October 2, 2012

During the conference I attended last week, I must have asked thirty people how their editor and agent “pitching” appointments went.

Many of the writers were told to go ahead and submit their full manuscripts. Joy!

Even more, though, had flaws and mistakes pointed out in their summaries and synopses…things that needed to change before the story would be considered.

Constructive Criticism

The flaws included such fixable things as:

the manuscript was 20,000 words too short for the genre
the manuscript was told from an unworkable POV
the plot sagged instead of rising to a recognizable climax
the historical setting didn’t sound authentic

Reactions and Responses

What I found most interesting were the writers’ responses to the news that their manuscripts had flaws that needed work.

They included many reactions:

Some denied that there was any big need for revision. They decided to ignore the editor’s or agent’s comments. Every writer except one was an unpublished writer too, so I’m not sure what they were basing their denial on.
Some writers admitted that the flaw was there–a few had already guessed it–but they took the news so personally that their self-esteem was flattened. They left the conference depressed–not a good state for revising.
Some defended their mistake or flaw. One writer who had pitched an idea for a genre that the editor didn’t publish argued that they should! She defended her choice of publisher, claiming that they needed to think outside the box.

The Solution

Yes, it’s hard to hear that your idea needs a major overhaul to be publishable. None of us enjoys hearing that. What’s the answer? Eric Maisel in Fearless Creating says this:

“What are any of us to do? Abandon the work or complete it, learn from the experience, cry, forgive ourselves, and move on…Now dry your eyes. There’s work to be done.”

Yes, it’s true that editors, agents and publishers can be wrong. We love to hear such stories of rejected manuscripts that went on to publication (with no change) and hit bestseller status–even becoming classics.

However, says Nava Atlas in The Literary Ladies Guide to the Writing Life:

“There are certainly many other instances in which writers refuse to take any constructive criticism and cling to the notion that their freshman efforts are brilliant and beyond reproach. This creates a ‘me versus them’ mindset that’s never constructive.”

What if you’re willing to fix your writing mistakes, but you don’t know how? What if you freeze or block at the revision an agent or editor has requested? These words from award-winning Elizabeth George in Write Away might point the way for you:

“Why do [writers] reach sudden dead ends? Why do they become afflicted by the dread writer’s block? I believe it’s because they … don’t have enough craft in their repertoire. Put another way, they have no toolbox to root through to repair a mistake in the house they’re trying to build.”

You may not have the right tools in your toolbox, but you can get them. (Example: if your problem is the story lacking conflict or a climax, study books on plotting until you figure out the problem.)

How About You?

I’m curious. What do YOU do when you get the “fix this” message about your fiction?

Do you have any tips or special survival strategies for this?

[Be sure to read the great tips in the comments section posted by some much-published writers!]

Post tags: rejection, revision

Posted in: rejections,revision,Uncategorized | | Comments (26)

26 Comments »

I’ve been stuck in the middle of a mg novel and have been reading LOTS of realistic, contemporary mg (some ya) novels for the ‘fix.’ I’ve been noting especially what happens at the exact halfway point, in terms of conflict and the main character’s response to it. You can fix quite a lot of problems by noting that particular element in the novels you read.

I should add that I’ve been reading realistic contemorary because that’s what I’m writing. If I were writing a mystery or historical fiction, I’d read those for help. I also read the newest books I can get my hands on since they more closely reflect current needs, trends, etc.

Comment by Pam Beres — October 2, 2012 @ 9:03 am
Pam, what great ideas! I plan to use that “notice what happens in the middle of the book” idea myself. And you’re so right–as much as we love to read the classics, we also need to read current books of the type we are writing for a fair comparison. We can learn so much from each other!

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 2, 2012 @ 9:05 am
First, I think it helps to understand what “revision” means. Many newer writers honestly have no idea that it means more than prettying the work up with some line edits. And when they do get the news that it often means tearing the work apart to fix a faulty foundational element, they resist so hard. You rightly cite as “fixable” such major things as 20,000 words too short and wrong POV, but this sounds so overwhelming to the writer who thought her work was done and who wants to get this publishing show on the road already. Add to that the already-mentioned fact that they probably need to upgrade their skills to even tackle the revision, and a lot of wannabe careers are going to end at this point.

What helped me was to get a handle on the virtually universal need for DEEP revision in virtually everybody’s writing, that it’s a fact of the professional writer’s life at all levels, and that it doesn’t mean you stink OR your critiquer stinks. Once you accept this, and not until then, you’re in a position to benefit from suggestions to upgrade skills.

A book I recommend all the time is WRITING IT RIGHT by Sandy Asher. If even 25% of the students I recommend it to buy it, I should be getting a promo fee. This book will SHOW, not tell, writers about the revision process, even for people who’ve been publishing a long time.

Comment by Marcia — October 2, 2012 @ 9:08 am
Yes, Sandy’s WRITING IT RIGHT is a gold mine! I agree. And Marcia, you’re so right about needing to get it through our heads that revision–especially the early ones–can involve huge changes, throwing out huge chunks, and fixing things we didn’t know were foundational when we wrote it. Honestly, once we get past that sticking point, revision can be fun! About the only time I want to panic over this is when something is on a tight deadline and I hadn’t planned on virtually starting over.

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 2, 2012 @ 9:09 am
My first response is normally to fume inwardly at the lack of insight of the person telling me something is wrong (how could she/he think it wasn’t wonderful? Yeah, I have a big ego.)

Then I calm down and make notes of how I understand the critique — I’m restating the editor’s comments in my own words so I begin to process them.

If there is time, I set them aside for at least a couple days. I always find it easier to fix something if I have time to process what was asked for.

I return to the critique/revision request and check the editor/agent’s words against my understanding. Usually I have to tweak. Somehow I tend not to “get it” the first time I read a revision request and often not the first several times — I guess I can be thick headed.

Then I just try it. I make the revision. I do whatever is recommended. I try it. Even if I think their idea is worse than mine. I try it. And in almost all cases, the work becomes much, much better after the revision.

If it isn’t much better — I go back to the “setting aside” step and give it a longer “stew” time. Then I try it again. If I don’t see an improvement the second time then (and only then) would I consider defending my original choice. And usually, I can defend it much better because the process of revision helped me understand both my own choice and the agent/editor’s choice much, much better.

On one occasion, this “try it” method actually made me see a THIRD alternative that wasn’t what I had originally and wasn’t quite what the agent suggested — but addressed what the agent was bothered by in a totally different way. And he was very complimentary and loved the revision.

Comment by Jan Fields — October 2, 2012 @ 9:10 am
Jan, I’m so glad that I’m not the only one who doesn’t tend to “get it” the first time or two I read a revision letter. Yes, letting it sit AT LEAST overnight is crucial. Otherwise I reply in a snit.

I liked how you said that you try the revision, even if you think the editorial idea isn’t as good as your own. We have to be willing to try to see that other viewpoint BEFORE arguing our point.

I loved what you said about trying the revision more than once before defending your original position. I don’t think many writers do this, but there is such wisdom there! You’re right–you learn a lot about various parts of the book by doing that. Plus, as you mentioned, you can come up with totally new ideas or new fixes to other things. Great, great advice here!

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 2, 2012 @ 9:30 am
First thing I do is evaluate the evaluator! Seriously–I need to decide whether this is someone whose judgement (and credentials) I respect. Especially at an open mike or group critique, not all comments are equally helpful. But if the speaker is someone I trust and the comments resonate with me, I re-read my manuscript slowly and carefully. Then I set it aside and go clean house or something so my mind can play with the problem. Brainstorm, freewheel, play “what if?” … I have to rethink before I can start revising. Note: it helps to have a number of different manuscripts in various stages, so while one is “resting” I can work on another one that’s ready to move forward.

Comment by Paula — October 2, 2012 @ 9:34 am
Paula, what a great point! “Evaluate the evaluator!” I have made the mistake before of taking to heart revision “advice” from people who mean well but have so little experience.

Yes, those non-think activities like cleaning or weeding do work to give our minds time to chew on something.

I like your idea of having other things in progress to work on while something is “resting.” While I don’t seem able to juggle two fiction book mss. at the same time, there are plenty of other writing projects waiting, even if it’s only blog posts, critiques to do, or marketing stuff. Good use of time!

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 2, 2012 @ 10:27 am
Oh, boy. I think many beginning writers think that editing is revision …

I revised my historical on my own thrice before showing it to anybody, pulling the whole thing apart to make the plot work with the time period. Lots of completely scrapped work. Painful. But I’m no longer afraid to do it.

I always consider what my critiquer is telling me. Even if it’s not the *right* solution, working on those troubled areas means I will eventually find the right path.

And as Paula says, it’s important to make sure you don’t get derailed by a critique.

Comment by Vijaya — October 2, 2012 @ 10:28 am
Vijaya, I liked your line that you’re “no longer afraid to do it.” Once we’ve been through a few of these revisions (NOT edits!), it does take some of the fear out of it. And yes, we need to listen to critiquers. Even if their solutions don’t work or aren’t right for our book, it’s important to note which areas just don’t work for them or are unclear or draggy or whatever. [I had one writer tell me the definition of revision was "tweaking." Oh dear!]

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 2, 2012 @ 12:25 pm
I kept hitting a brick wall in that editors and agents repeatedly told me I’m a great writer, but… After the but, there were no contract offers. I wanted so desperately to take my writing up a notch. Finally I decided not to attend any more conferences for a few years. Instead, I committed my conference dollars (and more) to workshops. I attended a nearly weeklong workshop at Kathi Appelt’s house, even paying for hotel and meals. I attended 2 of Sandy Fox and Darci Pattison’s SCBWI weekend workshops in Arkansas. I applied for a Highlights Foundation scholarship, was awarded 1/2 my expenses, and attended Highlights’ weeklong workshop at Chautauqua, NY (now head in Honesdale, PA). I went on to attend 3 of Carolyn Yoder’s weeklong workshops in Honesdale, PA.

Finally, I got someone else’s editorial voice (Carolyn Yoder’s)in my head besides my own writer’s voice. Now I write a first draft in my own writerly way. Then when I go through revision mode, it’s as if I hear a different editorial voice that shows me where to cut, where to expand.

I went on to get an agent who is an editorial agent. (She has since left and I’m looking for another editorial agent).

As an ICL instructor, the highest compliment I receive is when a student tells me s/he hears my editorial voice in his/her head at the revision stage. I don’t think people realize what a bargain the ICL courses are compared to attending workshops or paying an editor to critique a manuscript.

It has become my belief that too many people are too concerned about publishing, and even rush to publication with self or e-publishing, than they are concerned with learning writing skills and honing their craft. As a result, people flock to conferences with editors and agents before they are ready. What would serve them better is to spend the money and time trying to take their writing up notches so when the time comes and the opportunity presents itself, their manuscripts will be a solid iceberg rising above the rest of the melting slush.

Comment by Christine Kohler — October 2, 2012 @ 2:28 pm
Christine, there are so many words of wisdom in your post. Yes, there is a great rush to publication these days. I feel for such writers because they are missing the joy of learning slowly, absorbing good books and teaching, writing and revising and writing again, in large part because they are pressured to “build a platform” and “at least get a blog going so they are published.” I’m glad I started writing when there was no Internet and you just sat at home and wrote and learned. And took the ICL course! You are so right about it being a super bargain too.

While I haven’t attended the workshops you mentioned ($$), I have learned a great deal on my own (or I should say, STUDIED a great deal on my own) with some terrific text books. We have the opportunity to learn if we want to, but you’re right. It takes time.

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 2, 2012 @ 6:23 pm
So many good ideas here! Hopefully some of the people you spoke to at the conference, Kristi, we’re just in that initial defensive phase and will later realize they do have to make big changes. It’s necessary to take a huge step back while editing and look at the work with a more analytical mindset, setting aside your love for the piece and all the hard work you’ve done.

I developed my “plot outline exercise” as a way to analyze the structure of a manuscript (or outline) in a logical, unemotional way. The guidelines are available as a free download from my Kris Bock (my name for writing for adults)website http://www.krisbock.com/blog.htm and are also in my book Advanced Plotting, along with lots of essays on how to fix problems, available at Amazon and other retailers. http://tinyurl.com/4xfl7dp

Comment by Chris Eboch — October 3, 2012 @ 8:28 am
Chris, thank you so much for pointing us to both your free plot outline exercise download and the information in your writing book. Sometimes we just can’t see the forest for the trees, but with a good analytical tool, we’re able to see the problems finally.

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 3, 2012 @ 10:40 am
Years ago I heard an agent talk about “the fruitful darkness.” Of course, we don’t like what we first hear. So besides crying and drying our eyes, ala Eric Maisel, we have to let the statements about the problems in our writing simmer in our brains. If we’re honest with ourselves, there will be at least one thing they said that will ring true. Work on that one thing. When that’s done, maybe we can see the other comments with fresher eyes. We might see more that needs changing, or we might not.

Comment by Sue Ford — October 3, 2012 @ 11:42 am
Sue, you said a mouthful! “If we’re honest with ourselves…” Oh yes! So often some criticism will ring true, but it’s something we hoped we were wrong about! Good advice to work on the one thing you believe just might be true about your work, and then go from there. Once we can break the log jam, our eyes often do become clearer!

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 3, 2012 @ 12:42 pm
Thanks, everyone, for sharing these helpful comments. I especially agree with Christine Kohler’s viewpoint. As Kristi replied–it takes time to study the craft and deepen writing skills. Persistence is necessary, even when we feel discouraged by a critique.

Comment by Deanna — October 3, 2012 @ 3:21 pm
Yes, it does take persistence. But it’s funny too. Once we drag out gaze off the publishing prize and focus on learning and applying what we learn, we get most of the joy back. Focusing on publishing before you’re ready can ready drain the fun out of writing.

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 4, 2012 @ 2:55 pm
Hi Kristi, I decided to self-publish. Not because I don’t want to deal with any criticism. I simply want more flexibility in choosing topics and writing styles that I like. I also like being able to choose my own illustrators. To me, the editors and the readers are your friends. They are the sounding boards for your ideas and they should be seen as essential in helping you create the best book. It’s good to ask a few people that you know will tell you the truth. I doubt anyone wants to publish books that are full of mistakes or that readers won’t like. I actually ask friends and their kids to read my manuscripts and give me ideas about what I could improve. I don’t always make all the changes that others propose, but the ones that I did accept made my books better. J:O)

Comment by Joanne Lecuyer — October 4, 2012 @ 3:22 pm
Joanne, I think the decision to self-publish is a topic all of its own. But you’re so right in thinking that self-published books need outside critiques too–and you have to be able to listen to criticism, learn what you can from it, know what to discard, and what is useful. Just be sure that you’re getting unbiased critiques from people, preferably other writers.

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 4, 2012 @ 3:44 pm
For me, Kristi, part of the problem is when your first critiques from beta-readers start with “I typically don’t read X book you write” or “This sounds like you’re ripping off X bestseller book” it frankly adds rational, hear me, RATIONAL frustration, to whatever the overblown reaction is.

Just because I write book with X similarities, doesn’t mean I’m trying to either ripoff or piggyback on someone else’s success in some sleazy, used car salesman way.

Okay, I write animal fantasy, that doesn’t I’m trying to ripoff all the ones that came before me, yeah and I read and love them, but I’m being ME, not THEM, and if you can’t accept that when you critique my work, you are being no less disrespectful than writers who take their angst toward agents and editors to childish extremes.

I don’t blame others for my problems, but I also don’t stand for writers letting their subjective preference, masquerade as universal “Truth.” I’m not pointing fingers at anyone here, but it’s something I’ve had to face, and many other writers I know, it even caused one to quit for years, and only recently has she recovered from that horrid experience to write and rewrite again, and now she’s getting less “formulaic” feedback from agents.

My main point is this: I don’t have to hear the epic political breakdown of why animal fantasy for NON-preschool readers is a hard sell, I just want to know if MY BOOK, not the books already out there, is at the level it needs to be to get sold, those are not the same thing, and I feel lots of failed beta-reader experiences in my journey so far were because of this very issue.

If not, tell me without bashing my genre, and if so, what do you think is keeping agents or editors from seeing what you see?

Just keep your points relevant, or you risk leaving a writer (No matter how professional and detached you are) confused and broken, that’s not what a critique, however hard to hear, should do, am I wrong, Kristi?

Just like it can take YEARS to get an agent or YEARS to get an editor to notice you in a nice/professional way to where they’re coming to YOU, it also can take YEARS just to find someone who will tell you the truth-Without bashing the books you write and love.

Think of it this way-

People still read and write paranormal romance, and even if agents and editors are tired of them, and frankly as a reader myself, me too, but apparently we’re in the minority, and I’ve nothing against paranormal in general, or romance in general, but I’m just tired of those types of books dominating over other books and genres that are no less fun to read, or write for that matter, that’s all.

I’m not excusing anyone’s bad behavior, including myself, sometimes even the best of us cross the line. Eut we are still human, and if we’re ever going to convince people who’ve just lost their way on their writer’s path, whether creatively or professionally (Or both!) of this fact-we need to forgive ourselves and others for times we’re less than ideal and professional.

I still struggle to not overreact, but aside from letting feedback gel in one’s mind for a time, try to make clear with your beta-readers any angst is about the problem citied, not the person pointing out the problem.

Take Care All,
Taurean

Comment by Taurean Watkins — October 5, 2012 @ 5:40 pm
Taurean, it sounds like you’ve gotten some wicked feedback in the past. I have too, on occasion, and once it was in a group feedback session. Not to be overly dramatic, but it honestly felt like I had been stabbed. I could barely breathe, and afterwards went straight to my hotel room and sat, stunned, for about an hour. I wish I had known then what I knew later, and I would have brushed off the critique faster. I hope you keep looking around for better beta readers. (They do exist.) I probably wouldn’t give someone like you described a second chance.

Yes, you have every right to expect a professional critique without bashing your genre or anything else.

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 5, 2012 @ 5:52 pm
I know, but I try not to hold grudges as I once did and hope at least some of those who burned me will learn to be better critique partners to somebody else, because in all honesty, they were fine writers.

That said, I wouldn’t ask those writers to critique my work again because life is too short for that kind of sniping, and I try to make sure when I critique someone, to phrase things in a way that’s still honest, without making the writer on the other side feel worse, because the point is to help make things better.

Comment by Taurean Watkins — October 5, 2012 @ 8:09 pm
Taurean, then some good came out of that. I, too, am a more sensitive critiquer after getting blasted in the past. At least, I really try to be!

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 5, 2012 @ 8:13 pm
This posting and the comments are very helpful. I got ripped recently. Let it sit a couple days to process. I spoke with authors (published and aspiring) about the critique. They helped me to use the ripping to my advantage. I have since come up with a new way to draft the opening chapters of my work. Now, I can’t wait to write / rewrite it.

Comment by Debra Feldman — October 6, 2012 @ 9:42 am
Debra, I applaud you for your response. I’ve seen too many writers curl up and not write for years after a particularly viscious critique. You have responded in the most professional way! Good for you, finding a way to profit by it. Happy rewriting! (By the way, INCREDIBLE photos on your website!)

Comment by Kristi Holl — October 8, 2012 @ 2:55 pm